Suspension Issue - A new take

LLT · Jul 27, 2009

jwaters943 said:
Genesis 380:

I appreciate your feedback, but I'm going to have to give the Serenitys a try. The HUGE amount of positive reviews and solid Tire Rack test results are just too much to overlook.

As well as positive reviews here: http://www.1010tires.com/tire.asp?tirebrand=Bridgestone&tiremodel=Turanza+Serenity

Not to mention this review from the wheels.ca (midsection of the page): http://www.wheels.ca/article/31155

Quote: "So to cut to the chase: the Serenity is the quietest, smoothest W-rated tire I have ever experienced. It floats down the road like a hovercraft, but still has excellent turn-in response to quick steering inputs."

Thank you for taking one for the team.

I'm really anxious to see how you like them.

CanukV6 · Jul 28, 2009

From my experience, tires alone will not make an appreciable difference to the ride. If you stick with the stock 235/50/18 or 225/55/17 sizes then there is only so much 'give' any tire can have with those fairly low profiles. In general low profile tires need to have stiff sidewalls (the greatest factor on ride quality) in order to prevent the tire deflecting too much over sharp bumps and allowing the rim to contact mother earth. This is another reason why most Run-Flat tires have such a horrible ride, because the sidewalls have to support the vehicle during deflation.

Going to a 60 profile tire as LLT is suggesting may help a little, although I think that a 215 tread width (neccessary to retain near stock overall tire diameter) is a bit marginal for a car the size, weight and performance of the Genesis sedan. It will be interesting to hear the results. I am sure the only true answer lies with retuning of the shocks, springs and bushings in the suspension and that is a 'black art' best left to specialists. I truly hope that Hyundai find an acceptable ride solution that doesn't ruin the handling and is retrofittable to 2009 Genesis cars - preferrably at their expense.

jwaters943 · Jul 28, 2009

CanukV6 said:
From my experience, tires alone will not make an appreciable difference to the ride.

I think that depends a lot on the car and tires in question. My VWs and BMW 528i benefited greatly from upgrading the sub-par OEM tires to something more highly-rated. My Honda Pilot on the other hand went through 3 different sets of tires and none felt hugely different from the other, although the Kumho Solus I tried last did provide the best ride quality.

Judging by the noticeable change in ride quality on my Genesis when switching to snow tires I'd say tires play a very important role in the overall feel of the car.

CanukV6 · Jul 28, 2009

I agree there will be some difference when changing tires. Whether its a positive or negative difference depends on the type of tire. Softer rubber (as with winter tires) will help whereas more performance oriented tires will likely make things worse. Also if like me you changed from 235/50/18 stock wheels/tires to 225/55/17 winter wheels/tires, I'd agree that there definitely is a small improvement due to the slightly taller tire profile and softer compound.

With higher profile tires there can definitely be bigger differences between brands and types with regard to ride, but I think on the Genesis the difference between the stock set-up and the 'softest' available tire in stock sizes, isn't going to make a dramatic change.

GripperDon · Jul 28, 2009

IMO either the Serenity or the comforttread will make a notable difference. Regarding the 215/60-17 being to little tire for the car it should be noted that the Genesis is supplied from the factory with 18 and 17 inch tires and the 17 inch is factory fit with 225/55-17 AND 215/60-17. Personally I would go with 225/60-17 to gain more side wall height and a very acceptable speedo inaccuracy. The Grip.

CanukV6 · Jul 28, 2009

I hadn't realised that the 215/60/17 was a factory option. Interesting.
I look forward to hearing how the tire change works out. Keep us posted.

Mark_888 · Jul 28, 2009

GripperDon said:
... it should be noted that the Genesis is supplied from the factory with 18 and 17 inch tires and the 17 inch is factory fit with 225/55-17 AND 215/60-17. Personally I would go with 225/60-17 to gain more side wall height and a very acceptable speedo inaccuracy. The Grip.

What exactly do you mean? The tires on the North American Genesis that are installed by the factory for 17" wheels are 225/55-17.

Sure, you can substitute several different sizes and have about the same tire diameter, and the 215/60-17 is one of those alternate sizes that can be substituted. But since when does the Genesis Sedan come from the factory with 215/60-17 tires?

But more important (in case you haven't heard) is that the 2010 Genesis will definitely get some new suspension parts to solve the problem that can be retrofitted to the 2009 (no details yet on cost), and it would probably be better to address the suspension issue by attacking the root cause of the problem, instead of trying to fix the suspension with softer tires.

wallymn · Jul 28, 2009

Mark_888 said:
What exactly do you mean? The tires on the North American Genesis that are installed by the factory for 17" wheels are 225/55-17.

Sure, you can substitute several different sizes and have about the same tire diameter, and the 215/60-17 is one of those alternate sizes that can be substituted. But since when does the Genesis Sedan come from the factory with 215/60-17 tires?

But more important (in case you haven't heard) is that the 2010 Genesis will definitely get some new suspension parts to solve the problem that can be retrofitted to the 2009 (no details yet on cost), and it would probably be better to address the suspension issue by attacking the root cause of the problem, instead of trying to fix the suspension with softer tires.

Ok Mark I;ll bite, What parts are being changed?

thomaspf · Jul 29, 2009

jwaters943 said:
Genesis 380:

I appreciate your feedback, but I'm going to have to give the Serenitys a try. The HUGE amount of positive reviews and solid Tire Rack test results are just too much to overlook.

Hi,

while some of the responses seem to question the effectiveness from a suspension perspective I would be very interested to hear about the differences in road noise.

If you happen to have access to a sound pressure level meter, I would appreciate if you could drive 60 mph over concrete surface and record the SPL with the Dunlop and the Bridgestone Serenity tires.

If the suspension changes for the 2010 model will be made available for the 2009 mode I will probably go for the combination of suspension and tires so noise impact really interests me.

Cheers

Thomas

GripperDon · Jul 29, 2009

MARK888

You stated that NorthAmerican cars are only fitted with 55 series on the 17 inch rim.

I stated that the car has been fitted by the factory with tires that include the 60 series.

All three tire fitments are listed at www.hmaservice.com which is the official corporate site used by the service departments of Hyundai. I stil would recommend the 225 over the 215 as the speedo error is so very minor.

The page is locked against copying and so much of what is posted seems to need a lawyer approach I can't do a cut and past so you will have to log on and read it for youself.

You opinion may object to this I was merely stating that the vehicle has been fitted by the factoy with such a size, and to be honest I think that the tyre size selection within such low dimension changes is much a personal choice. In my case any improvement in suspension may keep the car in my garage I will probably dump it at the rate my dissatisfaction is growing. I have had way too many fine automobiles to stick with, what for me is a rough rider, for very long. Other may love the ride and theyr are happy, but I have a vusy schedule and don't have but so much time for this sort of nosense. I'll hange in there to see If some new suspension parts become available to civilize the ride. I guess this shows that you a 5 link suspension doesn't assure a smooth (again for me ) ride. To be honest I think the suspension if OK and really the spring rates too. It is the valving in the shocks or dampers if you perfer, They are not somt enough in quick sharp imputs and the transitioning of orifice is shuddering.

All IMO except for what is printed in the service site tha is a quote.

genesis 45 · Jul 29, 2009

Mark, is this new updated info on retro fit and are sure we will be able to get these parts retro-fitted to our 2009' s........That is awesome......pls let know..........thx....

Mark_888 said:
What exactly do you mean? The tires on the North American Genesis that are installed by the factory for 17" wheels are 225/55-17.

Sure, you can substitute several different sizes and have about the same tire diameter, and the 215/60-17 is one of those alternate sizes that can be substituted. But since when does the Genesis Sedan come from the factory with 215/60-17 tires?

But more important (in case you haven't heard) is that the 2010 Genesis will definitely get some new suspension parts to solve the problem that can be retrofitted to the 2009 (no details yet on cost), and it would probably be better to address the suspension issue by attacking the root cause of the problem, instead of trying to fix the suspension with softer tires.

Genesis380 · Jul 29, 2009

215/60R17, 225/55R17 and 235/50R18 tire sizes are listed on page 8-3 of the owners manual.
The diameter of a 17" wheel fitted with a 215/60R17 tire is 1/10th of an inch larger than the 18" wheel fitted with a 235/50R18 tire, so the speedometer discrepancy is not even a consideration. A greater variation occurs during normal wear of every tire.

Genesis380 · Jul 29, 2009

Great news folks!
I had GoodYear Assurance Comfortreds in size 215/60R17 (H rated) installed this afternoon by Discount Tires, and I can only describe the ride now to be as good as my old '97 Lexus LS400! This evening I drove it over the rougher streets that used to jolt me around, and the Genesis ran creamy-smooth. The "low grain" jittery harshness is gone, and what used to be jarring impacts that shook my fillings loose, are now properly controlled and absorbed.

As a bonus, the car rides perceptably quieter - actually there is no road noise whatsoever. I am absolutely delighted. These are the tires that Hyundai should be putting on the Genesis. They obviously work well with the suspension calibration.

The steering is not quite as sharp, but that is to be expected with a softer, higher profile tire. For anyone with concerns over the narrower width 215 tire being insufficient for the weight of the car, the 60 aspect ratio tire actually has a higher load rating than the lower profile 55 series, and the overall diameter is 27.2". I have them at 33psi, although the higher load rating will allow dropping a couple of psi.

I took my wife for a ride without telling her it had different tires. After a couple minutes she asked what I did to the car because it "rides nice".
Discount Tires will give you a "trade in allowance" on your old tires if they are relatively new and are in good condition, which is nice considering the cost of having new tires installed.

GoodYear offers a 30 day ride satisfaction warranty so you have nothing to lose if you don't like the tires, but if you are looking at taming the Genesis for a smooth and quiet ride, I am sure you will be equally delighted with the results.

Mark_888 · Jul 30, 2009

genesis 45 said:
Mark, is this new updated info on retro fit and are sure we will be able to get these parts retro-fitted to our 2009' s........That is awesome......pls let know..........thx....

Here is the latest information posted on the Hyundai Think Tank website by a Hyundai employee (HMA_Heather):

Genesis Owners: General Discussion Board
July 23, 2009 06:02 PM EDT

Hello! Hope this answers your questions.

For the 2010 Genesis sedan, the additional features and revisions from the 2009 model are:

o Standard integrated Bluetooth that works with the car audio system
o Re-tuned suspension on the 3.8 V6 and the 4.6 V8; Changed bushings, spring rates, shocks
o Smart (adaptive) cruise control and electronic parking brake with automatic vehicle hold included with the Technology package for the 3.8 and 4.6
o Touch-screen navigation available on 3.8 and standard on base 4.6

It is my interpretation of the above post that the described suspension changes could be retrofitted to the 2009. No official word from Hyundai that I know of. But just because it is possible to retrofit, does not mean it will be cheap or that Hyundai dealers will even offer the service. I have also heard some mention by others of a new control arm, but that is not mentioned above.

-------------------------
Edit: Here is an excerpt from the HMA_Heather bio on the website (she is also listed on the Hyundai Think Tank home page as part of the Hyundai Motor America Team):

Hello! My name is Heather and welcome to Hyundai Think Tank! I am a recent college grad and I've been working at Hyundai since August 2007.

Mark_888 · Jul 30, 2009

Genesis380 said:
215/60R17, 225/55R17 and 235/50R18 tire sizes are listed on page 8-3 of the owners manual.
The diameter of a 17" wheel fitted with a 215/60R17 tire is 1/10th of an inch larger than the 18" wheel fitted with a 235/50R18 tire, so the speedometer discrepancy is not even a consideration. A greater variation occurs during normal wear of every tire.

You are correct that the 215/60R17 is listed in the owners manual, but it is not listed in the HMA (US) specifications for the car, so I don't think any Hyundai Genesis Sedan vehicles sold in the USA has had the 215/60R17 tires. Don't know about Canada.

Sure, there are several alternate tire sizes for both the 17" and 18" wheels that can used, where the diameter is slightly different but close enough. But the question of whether the 215/60R17 is a factory option that you can order in the US is a slightly different question.

GripperDon · Jul 30, 2009

Mark_888 said:
You are correct that the 215/60R17 is listed in the owners manual, but it is not listed in the HMA (US) specifications for the car, so I don't think any Hyundai Genesis Sedan vehicles sold in the USA has had the 215/60R17 tires. Don't know about Canada.

Sure, there are several alternate tire sizes for both the 17" and 18" wheels that can used, where the diameter is slightly different but close enough. But the question of whether the 215/60R17 is a factory option that you can order in the US is a slightly different question.

To paraphrase, As they said in "My Fair Lady" My gawd I think he's got it"

Regarding the tires that have been fitted by the factory and are therefor by inference ok for fitment by us owners without a lot of gawf. The 2010 Genesis Sedan will have what has been being said and that the fitment of other tires really does make a notable difference. Now we can get folks on the same page.
ONE: The ride needed fixing.
TWO, What CAN be done about it.
THREE. Price is a personal opinion.

Like all things. Sure free would be nice and could be proper but personally If I have to, I will pay for some of the suspension improvements rather than have a vehicle that I detest to ride it and I don't have to go to the trouble of getting a replacement (lots of time and trouble and not cheap either ) so personally I will get on with it and off this thread as thanks to GENESIS 380 we have proof of the pudding.

So personally I will get on with it and can quit having to read this thread and propose various solutions. Thanks to GENESIS 380 we have proof of the pudding.
I can just dream about how nice it will be with the new shocks and new tires and maybe new springs. YEA!

LLT · Jul 30, 2009

Genesis380 said:
Great news folks!
I had GoodYear Assurance Comfortreds in size 215/60R17 (H rated) installed this afternoon by Discount Tires, and I can only describe the ride now to be as good as my old '97 Lexus LS400! This evening I drove it over the rougher streets that used to jolt me around, and the Genesis ran creamy-smooth. The "low grain" jittery harshness is gone, and what used to be jarring impacts that shook my fillings loose, are now properly controlled and absorbed.

As a bonus, the car rides perceptably quieter - actually there is no road noise whatsoever. I am absolutely delighted. These are the tires that Hyundai should be putting on the Genesis. They obviously work well with the suspension calibration.

The steering is not quite as sharp, but that is to be expected with a softer, higher profile tire. For anyone with concerns over the narrower width 215 tire being insufficient for the weight of the car, the 60 aspect ratio tire actually has a higher load rating than the lower profile 55 series, and the overall diameter is 27.2". I have them at 33psi, although the higher load rating will allow dropping a couple of psi.

I took my wife for a ride without telling her it had different tires. After a couple minutes she asked what I did to the car because it "rides nice".
Discount Tires will give you a "trade in allowance" on your old tires if they are relatively new and are in good condition, which is nice considering the cost of having new tires installed.

GoodYear offers a 30 day ride satisfaction warranty so you have nothing to lose if you don't like the tires, but if you are looking at taming the Genesis for a smooth and quiet ride, I am sure you will be equally delighted with the results.

Excellent!! Thank you for the info. I suspected that might be the case. Why Hyundai used such junk tires as the Dunlop is beyond me... if I were them, I'd have made a good show of the tires at least the first year.

Glad to hear you've noticed an improvement - thanks again for posting. I think I'm going to go ahead and order new tires as well.

jwaters943 · Jul 30, 2009

You'd be surprised at how many good cars use junk OEM tires. The prior-gen Acura TL used Bridgestone Turanza ELs (I think...can't remember the exact model) and there was thread after thread about how bad the tires were in various conditions and that they would flatspot badly after only sitting for 10-12 hours. Even after numerous customer complaints Acura continued using the tires for years.

Genesis380 · Jul 30, 2009

Switching to a 60 series aspect ratio has a lot to do with the ride improvement. The lower profile 50 and 55 series sidewalls offered as standard equipment are way too firm for the Genesis' current suspension setup.
Unfortunately all manufacturers seem to be going the route of "bigger wheels with less tire is better".
I still believe in using a real pneumatic tire, not a wheel with a rubber band around it, and this experience has pretty much proven the point.

GripperDon · Jul 30, 2009

Genesis380 said:
Switching to a 60 series aspect ratio has a lot to do with the ride improvement. The lower profile 50 and 55 series sidewalls offered as standard equipment are way too firm for the Genesis' current suspension setup.
Unfortunately all manufacturers seem to be going the route of "bigger wheels with less tire is better".
I still believe in using a real pneumatic tire, not a wheel with a rubber band around it, and this experience has pretty much proven the point.

Right On !

Suspension Issue - A new take

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